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Sticky:FW: rebalancing NPCs and you

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 21 post(s)
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy 34	Posted - 2012.05.31 16:59:00 - [1] - Quote Any chance of a Dev posting to say you are still reading this? Having just read the entire thread, it seems an easy and fairly universally agreed first step would be to require killing all npc's to cap a plex. Speed tanking will work to count the timer down, but you still need something else to cap it. Do that first and see what people think afterwards. coughiteratecough
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy 38	Posted - 2012.06.18 15:17:00 - [2] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: A lot of you have suggested forcing the killing of rats in order to be able to seize the plex. As I've said before, I don't like this idea on the basis of keeping Sovereignty control as a PvP activity, and never requiring FW pilots to shoot red crosses in order to fight over a system. I might have missed it, but why? Requiring all plex NPCs to be killed makes sense from a RP point of view - they are defending after all. They aren't exactly difficult to kill given a reasonable amount and type of ships which varies by plex size. It gives the attackers something to do while capping the plex and waiting for PVP. Most importantly, it stops speed tanking alts. That should be relatively easy to implement. I used to think that the NPCs should be 'better' and more sleeper like. However, I now think that would tip the balance to much towards PVE instead of PVP. Ideally other players should be the defenders. NPCs are only really there to provide some defence when there are no player defenders. It's that defence which speed tanking nullifies. You might as well just have the button with no NPCs at all. Everything else pretty much works as it is. So, require the NPCs to be killed and see what might need adjusting after that.
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy 38	Posted - 2012.06.19 12:09:00 - [3] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: They shouldn't force pilots into tank-the-room PvE fits that focus on DPS-soaking, but they should have enough webbing frigates and such that you put yourself at much higher risk going into a larger plex in a small ship. It shouldn't be the case that individual players are be able to solo plexes (at least bigger than a minor). Less "but I'll need a bigger ship", more "I need a couple of friends". I really do believe that requiring the npc's to be killed will stop 1 day alt speed tanking for everyone (which is good) and still allow all players to use PVP fits (also good). For example, I can solo a minor in a griffin. That is, killing the npc's. It works, but it takes a while. It's much easier and quicker if I have a couple of friends to help kill the rats. There is no reason at all for all involved not to have PVP fits, ready for any defenders which may drop by, What is the argument against it?
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy 39	Posted - 2012.06.21 16:54:00 - [4] - Quote Shooting the NPC's really shouldn't take much effort even now. I mean, given a reasonable amount and type of PVP fitted ships for the plex size, it's not exactly difficult to kill them. Solo killing all major plex NPC's in a thrasher is, and should be, quite difficult and/or time consuming. The whole point of NPC's existing is to prevent speed tanking farmers. And right now they aren't doing it.
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy 41	Posted - 2012.06.25 16:23:00 - [5] - Quote Thaddeus Rees wrote: What annoys me most about Npc's in offensive factional warfare complexes, is that to tank them in a frigate I need to swap out for a PvE fitted ship. Which size plexes are you tanking in a PVE fit frigate? And what is the difference between your PVP and PVE fits? I'm struggling to see why (for example) a pvp fitted rifter couldn't kill the npc's in an amarr minor plex. (I have no direct experience of other faction npc's). How about requiring more pilots to be able to capture larger plexes? Say, minimum of 1 player to cap a minor. 2 for a medium and 3 for a major. Also, shooting npc's, while not perfect, is a better option than shooting inanimate objects.
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 47	Posted - 2012.08.23 17:07:00 - [6] - Quote I've only read the last couple of pages, so I may have missed things... NPCs Required in plexs to avoid gun-less plex farming Need to be killed to avoid gun-less plex farming (may include low hp structures as well as ships) Fairly easy to kill Aggro only when shot at. Allows pvp to happen in plexs with less interference Plex Defence Timer runs back to zero when no attackers are in range. Reduces the willingness of attackers to run away from defenders instead of pvping. Reduces need for defenders to sit at the button doing nothing for no reward The plex itself should have a (much longer) timer which also runs down when no attackers are in range. It will eventually defensive plex itself away if not attacked. No defensive plexing requirement avoids the issue of lack of reward. Plexs (eventually) defend themselves, causing system control to slowly(!) revert to stable. Attackers need to constantly attack over time to gain system control. Attackers will have need to be able to shoot things and run away less, providing more pvp with defenders No system control level above vulnerable. No lp rewards for plexing an already vulnerable system. That seems to fix the obvious issues while (hopefully) using technically possible and simple options.
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 49	Posted - 2012.08.28 17:05:00 - [7] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: And for the record, NPC's that de-agress upon enemy player entry is my absolute favorite solution to a lot of these issues. If the timer stopped and the NPC's deaggressed whenever a player warped in, we could have our PvP unfettered, and you couldn't just use an alt to trigger the de-aggression because you would be stopping the timer in the process. Can you explain this a bit more? As I understand it: Offensive plexer is killing NPC's. Defender warps in NPCs stop shooting offensive plexer and the timer stops Both players shoot each other Surely that would just create speed tanked defenders? What would stop me, as a defender, warping in using a speed tanked slasher (for example) and just flying around until the plexer gets bored and runs away? I can stop the timer and be impossible to catch. The offensive plexer can't do anything except find another plex.
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 49	Posted - 2012.08.29 16:28:00 - [8] - Quote That's encouraging, except that some things need fixing ASAP. A few relatively minor changes now that remove the bulk of the farmers will be enough to keep people happy and still involved in FW until the rest of the fixes come along.
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 49	Posted - 2012.08.31 17:15:00 - [9] - Quote Generally sounds really good. With capture buttons (and definitely the capture range) being right on the warp-in beacon, won't all plex fights just be close range blapping? Also, did I miss anything on whether a timer will count back down if no attackers are in range? (there was quite a lot to read through over the two threads)
Axl Borlara T.R.I.A.D 53	Posted - 2012.11.26 17:30:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Lili Lu wrote: It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment. I disagree. Bring a recon in against a vexor sitting at 0 on the warpin and see what happens. You are missing the point. Ok, yes you could start with a t1 cruiser in a plex. However, why would you not start by defending with a t2 cruiser? In which case, you'd attack using t2 as well. It works reasonably well now because in minor plexes, t2 frigates aren't allowed. Faction frigs are debatable, but in most cases, there are practical uses for t1 frigs. Same for mediums. t1 cruisers are used because that's the best available. (plus of course faction).

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